The tide is turning against the big brother DNA data base the Association of Chief Police Officers would like us all to subscribe to. Some have even made the comparison to the Poll Tax rebellion. Join discussion...

Because the Police now perceive the need to drag just about everyone and their dog into the Police Station for DNA sampling, the two pages of caution urged upon the Police in the Police and Criminal Evidence ACT (PACE) before taking such a drastic step are now routinely thrown into the wind by the Police who are taught by their superiors to always quote the one get out clause known as " “The necessity for a prompt arrest” even when these arrests happen days after aledged incidents and the identities of the people thus inconvenienced and stigmatized are pecfectly well known to the Police. Not only does this break the third principle of the Data Protection act 1998, at a local level this totally undermines confidence in the Police and kills any community policing initiatives, where the Police tries to mediate instead of being so heavy handed. Join discussion...

Today on BBC Radio Four news there was an item that last year a record 720,000 people were added to Britain's DNA database - making it world's largest. The item said also that 4,400 DNA matches were made with DNA retrieved from crime scenes( the figure stood at a reported 3000 last year). Watch the power of propaganda at work: This has about the same informational value as reporting that the amount of fly tipping increased by 1500 tonnes or every tree in the UK as developed another year ring under its bark. Its just business as usual, natural growth in meaningless numbers when people are paid to perform meaningless tasks. What is more relevant is the clear-up rate which is still below 50% and this probably has something to do with the fact that according to the same report the number of samples taken from crime scenes dropped by 20 per cent in the same period! Here we have it. The Police are wasting their time building up their data base at the detriment of solving actual crimes. For this database to be useful a child can see that the Police actually has to increase the number of forensic investigations on crime scenes proportionally and they should stop reporting DNA matched with victims, carers, neighbours and other non criminals as soving crime. It just eliminetes innocent people from flawed Police enquiries. The number of actual arrests when they match a criminal's DNA with DNA found at a crime scene is not reported by the National Policing Improvement Agency, but according to figures estimated by GeneWatch is nothing to brag about. Note the power of propaganda. The European Court of Justice is widely expected to rule that samples obtained during police investigations should be destroyed at the end of an inquiry rather than loaded on to the NDNAD because it is in breach of Data Protection and Human Rights legislation. The government spin doctors are just feeding this type of mis information to prepare the way for finding a way out not having to destroy all these samples. What do you make of all this propaganda? Are they softening up the public? Join discussion...

Some commentators say "he has lost the plot". I say spot on David Davis for mentioning as an example of the erosion of our civil liberties the abominable national DNA data base. Join discussion...

Is it worth worrying about small snippits of personal information being past with web services messages, when personal information is exposed by bucket loads in systems development environments? ..... Join discussion...

Justice at last: DNA retention of DNA samples of ‘innocent people’ deemed to be unlawful by EUROPEAN COURT OF HUMAN RIGHTS. Well done for S. and Marper and their diligent lwgal representatives Howells Join discussion...

I am really disappointed in the guardian with regard to the content of the Dec 5 article titled: “How traces linked killers to victims in high-profile cases” Here we have a ruling about the removal of the DNA of innocent people and without exception every example of so called DNA convictions apply to people who are convicted criminals or matching DNA during an investigation, when such DNA samples can be held legally by the police. It’s about the innocent Stupid! You may well realize this, but what’s left imprinted on the minds of the no so discerning is that the ruling is somehow detrimental to public safety. All the statistics from Scotland, where they do routinely erase DNA records of the innocent, point out this need definitely not be the case! By repeating meaningless statistics from APCO, like 200,000 DNA samples leading to 14,000 matches to crime scenes, the Guardian only serves the Home Office propaganda machine. Which Guardian journalist actually will rebut those figures by asking to how many court convictions were obtained by the police using DNA samples held in contravention of the December 4th ECJ ruling? You will find the answer much nearer to a humbling 187 extra convictions! And for this we need to have our civil liberties eroded? Where is the balance in this article? Join discussion...

According to a ruling by the European Court of Human Rights in the case S. and Marper v. the United Kingdom the government has till March the fourth to respond how they will comply. Will they put everyone in the UK on the data base? If they start erasing the records of innocent people wrongfully held, will this be like clearing King August's stables? What should we wattch out for? Join discussion...

A report from an Identity and Privacy conference in London, UK on the 9th of July 2007 sponsored by the UK Department of Trade and Industry (DTI). Join discussion...

Do you think it's right, that the Police seem to be able to continue to hold Fingerprints and DNA samples of people who are acquitted in a public court of Law [ or who’s cases never make it there] and hold them in the same data base alongside data of convicted child molesters, rapists and murderers? Join discussion...